Talk:United Federation of Planets
How can it be claimed that the Federation is a democracy if, (to the best of my knowledge), no known character possessing Federation citizenship has every been shown to vote, to have mentioned voting in the past, or even acknowledged that an election is/has/will be/may be occuring!? 194.80.32.12 14:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC) :What's the best way to intregrate conflicting information on the location of the Fed government on Earth? Crisis on Centaurus puts it in Geneva, Articles of the Federation has most of the essential business taking place in Paris, The Final Reflection has Federa-Terra, a city built in Florida specifically as a Federation Government enclave... and doubtless there are more examples. Group all the location references in one subsection, where conflicts can be specifically addressed?--Emperorkalan 16:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC) ::I wasn't aware of these contradictory novels. My inclination would be to put the stuff from the AotF in the main body of the article, since so many other novels are set in its continuity, and to put Crisis and Final Refection in their own sections, labeled "Crisis on Centarus Continuity" and "Final Reflection Continuity." But that's just me. -- Sci 03:29 27 June 2006 UTC :::Hi. Just want to tell you primary reason for posting today that I'm currently gathering together all my notes on the U.F.P. and Starfleet from all the notes I've done from ten years' Trek reading, and am hoping to add them to non-wiki very soon. Incorporated amongst that are references to FacetsDS9 and Ensign RoTNG. I have always known of Geneva from 'Crisis On Centaurus', but my notes on 'The Final Reflection' apparently neglected the mention of Federa-Terra. Data from 'AotF' not already from onscreen I haven't read, since the most 'modern' books I've read are 'Diplomatic Implausibility' and 'SNW VII', both several years ago. Stripey. ::::Again, do we know that there are separate continuities at play here -- or would that be assumption? ::::Since we know from canon and non-canon that the Council meets in San Francisco (ST4, DC-TOS) and the President works in Paris (ST6, DS9, AotF), it seems entirely possible that Federation government occurs in more than one place on Earth -- meaning that there might not be three continuities at play. :::We also have Federation conferences ocurring at Antwerp in DS9, meaning there is a very real possibility we should consider, that the Federation government uses numerous locations on and around Earth for its many functions, and that none of the surces are actually "conflicting" ::::Also, consider that Federa-Terra was extant in the early 23rd century, and could definitely have fallen out of use in favor of the new destinations (same goes for Geneva comapred to the 24th century locales) -- Captain M.K.B. 14:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC) :::::While it's certainly possible that Geneva houses some Federation government agencies, and while it's possible that Federa-Terra exists in the "Palais"-verse continuity and houses Fed gov't agencies, the problem is that Articles of the Federation very clearly establishes that the Palais de la Concorde in Paris was being used by the Federation Council and President as their capitol building in the 22nd Century (references to debates between President al-Rashid and Councillor sh'Rothress occuring in the same Federation Council Chambers, for instance). So while the other two may be used, there is a clear continuity conflict with the idea of them as capital cities... unless we presume that the were used as temporary capitals before the Palais completed construction (which had to occur at the latest during the administration of Haroun al-Rashid). -- Sci 21:05 10 MARCH 2007 The implications of transporter technology, as well as the ubiquitous secure communications, would mean that offices wouldn't necessarily need a fixed location. In essence, the whole planet could be seen as the 'capital.' Since the Federation is composed of several states, which themselves in turn have colonies and member worlds, it is entirely conceivable that there are hundreds of governmental entities and layers of bureaucracy at play. And besides, the benefits of de-centralization of power are immensely obvious. :This page is to discuss changes to the article. Please do not use this talk page for idle discussion of governments and policy not relating to the Star Trek universe. -- Captain MKB Unsourced There seems to be a focus on trying to categorize the government type of the Federation, however none of the additions have valid sources, a recent anon edit cited to wikipedia that the UFP is a post-capitalist liberal utopian democracy, which is a somewhat sound observation, but has no place here unless there's a licensed source that outlines such a structure. Also, what's the source for the sidebar's claim of a 'federal republic' or is that also speculation? -- Captain MKB 09:51, June 28, 2010 (UTC) First, apologies for being rude. So where does 9.85 trillion sentient life-forms come from? - Anon 09/16/11 03:58 :No problem, thanks for coming to ask. :I don't know. I went trawling through the history. User:Sci stated "985 trillion" on 7th May 2006, but I'm not sure of the source. An IP-address person (58.168.35.124) changed it to "9.85 trillion" on 20th August - again, no source. The date is also not clear. :On a similar note, gives 589 trillion. That would be circa 2364. -- BadCatMan 11:21, September 16, 2011 (UTC) ::I would love to see that. Is there a scan anywhere of that page? - Anon 09/16/11 12:07 :::There is now: The Alliance at a glance. The Free Worlds of Klinzhai are what we would call the Klingon Empire, the Grand Alliance is the alliance of them and the UFP - that became the Treaty of Alliance in the tv series. The book came out around TNG Season 1, so it gets a few things wrong or superseded. :::I apologise, I misread that population figure. The UFP has a population of 589 trillion. I corrected this above. :::PS: If you type in ~ ~ ~ ~ (no spaces) or use the "Sign your name" insert at the bottom, you won't have to type in your Anon, date and time. (At least, I assume that's what you're doing.) -- BadCatMan 01:18, September 17, 2011 (UTC) :I don't have it with me, so I can't be certain, but if I added the "9.85 trillion sentient life-forms" entry to the "Population" field back in 2006, I probably got it from Star Trek: Star Charts by Geoffrey Mandel. I'd suggest someone double-check with that source. -- Sci 02:23 20 SEPT 2011 UTC Other references Just to clarify, what is the purpose of the "Other references" section? Is it to mark a source which gives a specific piece of information that should be included on the page? In which case, can’t we just include it? Or an alternative title for the standard "appearances and references" section, in which case I question how sensible a section that might be to start on a page for a major subject we can't hope to properly compile a complete list of appearances and references for. Or some other purpose entirely? --8of5 10:25, June 28, 2010 (UTC) :Well, the Federation was shown on a map in the source I'm working with, so I figured it would be good to list such occurrences although I didn't really see the necessity for a lot of descriptive text about how it was on the map. Maybe it's a cartographic reference. :If you want to change it feel free, I should have known better than to try and sneak information into a section that didn't have your approval first. -- Captain MKB 10:29, June 28, 2010 (UTC) Yeah I figured you'd snap back... I don't want to change it, just wanted to know what we're meant to do with this section. I'm still not entirely sure... Does this citation give any new information on the territory of the Federation not covered by exciting citations on the page? --8of5 10:37, June 28, 2010 (UTC) :Just trying to live up to your expectations, sir. :On the subsection, a list of every time the Federation occurred on a map would be a not overwhelming list, and possibly a useful thing to have around, but i don't believe this covered by any of the existing subsections as spelled out in the official style guide. -- Captain MKB 10:48, June 28, 2010 (UTC) The style guide doesn't spell out lots of things, in fact it barely covers in-universe articles at all! Anywho, I understand what you're trying to do now, and in which case I suggest it might be better placed in the current "Territory" section, possibly as a background note so it can actually explain it's about mapping? --8of5 11:17, June 28, 2010 (UTC) "Several sources seem to imply an "Interplanetary Federation" existing prior to the official founding which did not have Earth as a founding member, and a Space Federation which existed as early as the 2080s and continued into the 23rd century, refferd to as having banded together the civilizations of the nearer universe against hostile star empires, though this is most likely an alternate timeline." Can anyone tell me which sources state that? Thanks :D 16:33, April 10, 2015 (UTC) Cyril :3